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General Purposes Sub-Committee: February 12th 1923

 

On Minutes Nos 188 and 208, with regard to the "Etna" system of heating, which had been tried at Sparkbrook, Small Heath, Balsall Heath and Erdington, the General Manager reported that complaints were still being received from the Branch Managers in reference to this system. As far as he could ascertain from the tests taken the system was capable of giving the necessary heat, but trouble with condensation was very pronounced at Small Heath and the complaints were generally with regard to the fumes from the pipes. The objection which the General Manager took to the system was that experiments had been carried out since July 1922 and yet the system was not satisfactory and it appeared to him that the time had arrived when the Committee should decide whether these experiments were to continue until satisfaction could be obtained or whether the system should be abandoned. The Etna Lighting and Heating Company has been pressing for payment for work done, but their accounts as rendered showed considerable charges over and above the quoted prices, these charges being in connection with various additions and experiments which had been tried. The General Manager had placed the matter before the Chairman of the full Committee who had not passed any of the accounts for payment on the ground that the system was not satisfactory and had suggested that a conference should take place with the Etna people with reference to the whole matter.

 

248     RESOLVED:- That Councillors Appleby and Higgins with the General Manager, be requested to confer with the Etna Lighting and Heating Company and decide whether their system of heating installed at certain Branches should be maintained or discontinued: also to arrive at a settlement in reference to the accounts in dispute.

 

General Purposes Sub-Committee: February 26th 1923

 

On Minute No 248, the following report of the General Manager was submitted with reference to the Etna system of heating:

 

Report by General Manager on "Etna" system of Heating.

 

The General Manager has previously furnished two reports on the subject of heating Branches in which reference to this system is made.

 

The first report was considered at a meeting of the General Purposes Sub-Committee held on September 5th 1922, and the second report was considered at a meeting of the General Purposes Sub-Committee held on November 20th 1922.

 

The first report emphasized the necessity of making better heating arrangements than had hitherto applied at Branches, before the approaching Winter set in, and an account of the trial of the "Etna" system at Sparkbrook, and what is claimed for it by the Patentees, was given. Briefly, the claims put forward were that the system would affect an economy of 30% to 40% in gas consumption; that the heat would be more equally distributed over the office than is the case with radiators; that the heat being radiated near to the floor the lower parts of the person would be kept warm; that the cost of installation was small; and that there would be no fumes from the system as they would be carried outside.

 

The second report gave comparative costs of the gas radiator system, the Etna system, and a hot water circulatory system put forward by the Gas Department. In this report the General Manager pointed out that the Etna system had not given the results claimed for it, and that experiments were continually being made to get the system satisfactory. Further, that the putting in of extra sections in order to get reasonable warmth would seriously affect the cost and the consumption as against gas radiators was not likely to be appreciably reduced. The General Manager also expressed his disapproval of the manner in which the work was being carried out, the unsightly appearance of the Banks as a result of the pipes being carried up the walls, and drew attention to certain drawbacks in the way of heat from the burners affecting the wood block floors and difficulties in connection with condensation. In this report the General Manager urged the Committee to put down a more effective system, particularly at the permanent Branches, and expressed his opinion that the Gas Department's proposals appeared sound and were likely to give satisfactory heat. The Committee agreed with the General Manager's views and decided accordingly, but no action was taken as regards the four Branches where the Etna system was installed except that the Etna Company must put the system right.

 

The General Manager's opinion is that the Etna Company have not justified their claim for the system, and have in fact seriously departed from one of the main advantages, viz that of fumes in the office. The trouble experienced from the "back draughts" has caused them to erect "chimneys" in the Banks and the fumes escape from such "chimneys" into the Bank. From the commencement to the present time the system has been altered and experimented with while it has become a nuisance. It is true that the system as installed now at Sparkbrook and Small Heath gives a satisfactory heat, but it is by reason of additional sections at an additional cost, and the same result might have been achieved by gas radiators if extra radiators had been put down. There is condensation trouble still at Small Heath but not at Sparkbrook. The position at Balsall Heath and Erdington is not satisfactory as regards heat nor can it be made so without extra sections being put in. The ugliness of the piping, the noise which the burners make, and the more serious trouble of danger to the public from burning unless guarded, constitute complaints which are sufficient to condemn the system. To effectively guard the pipes means further expense.

 

The original quotations of the Etna Company were as follows:

Sparkbrook	£22. 10. 0.
Small Heath	£18. 0. 0.
Balsall Heath	£19. 10. 6.
Erdington	£14. 10. 0.
Selly Oak	£25. 0. 0.
	£99. 10. 6.

The General Manager is of opinion that the system should be abandoned, the apparatus removed, and a settlement on the accounts aimed at, and that if the Sub-Committee concur in this opinion that the Chairman (Councillor Appleby) and the General Manager be authorised to effect such settlement.

 

The General Manager further advises the Sub-Committee to install the Hot Water Circulatory system without further delay at Sparkbrook, Small Heath and Balsall Heath, and to ask the Gas Department to provide additional heating at Erdington to carry over the present winter.

 

A synopsis of the correspondence in the matter will be available for the information of the Committee if required.

 

The General Manager reported that since preparing the above report a further inspection had been made by Councillor Higgins and himself, and the condensation trouble was still being experienced at Sparkbrook, Balsall Heath and Erdington Branches. On consideration of the matter, the following letter from the Etna Lighting and Heating Company was read:

 

THE ETNA LIGHTING AND HEATING CO LTD

293A and 295, Broad Street,

BIRMINGHAM.

26th February, 1923.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Coventry Rd. Bank.

 

The two small Window Sections at the above which was altered from Round to Rectangular to fit the Windows that the Seats might go back still seems to condense badly. The only thing we suggest is to re-make the whole thing in an Oval Section. The Rectangular Section is the first experience we have had and was only tried to suit the above conditions. Curiously enough, Stratford Rd., round section under exactly the same conditions has never shown any condensation at all since it was first fixed 1st July, 1922. We now feel, time due to the short Banking hours and the time to make special nature of the Piping and changes have exhausted your patience, although honestly we have striven to give you the best of our services.

 

We would like to suggest to you that we put in B.T.U. Boiler (more expensive) complete system, which we feel you now favour at a reasonable price, deducting the cost of Hot Air.

 

Please do clearly understand we are stilled filled up with orders for this Hot Air Heating and are meeting with every success, and we do not wish you to think that we feel we have failed, and our latest suggestion to you is only based on that we wish to give you every satisfaction and that you will continue to help us by allowing our confidence to remain with you as strong as ever.

 

Please thoroughly understand this is a big financial loss to ourselves which we are glad to offer with a view of being perfectly honourable and straightforward. If you wish the Oval Section tried we will do this at our own expense and rush it through in 4 to 5 days. The other sections at Coventry Road Bank we understand give satisfaction.

 

            Six Ways, Aston.

 

           Mr McMichael asked us to wire and provide for Key Sign at the above, we have finished to a porcelain ceiling rose.

 

Yours faithfully,

(Signed) H R Prosser

Managing Director.

__________________________

27th February 1923.

 

Dear Sir,

 

With reference to our Mr Prosser's interview with you this afternoon, we have much pleasure in confirming the extension of our offer in our letter of the 26th to include Sparkbrook Branch and Balsall Heath, it being understood that we prepare a Plan with our scheme and estimate for Coventry Road first. Further that our work is passed by the Gas Department.

 

Thanking you,

Yours faithfully,

(Signed) H P Prosser

Managing Director.

 

P.S. Will you please instruct Mr McMichael to send us blue print of Coventry Rd., Balsall Heath and Sparkbrook Branches.

 

267    RESOLVED:- That the Gas Circulatory Heating System be substituted for the Etna Heating System at the Sparkbrook, Small Heath and Balsall Heath Branches, and that the Etna Company be informed that in consideration of the Company waiving all claims in respect of accounts rendered for work carried out in installing their Patent Hot Air System at Small Heath, Sparkbrook, Balsall Heath and Erdington Branches, this Sub-Committee are agreeable that they should be allowed to install the Gas Circulatory Heating System as fitted at Selly Oak and Aston Branches, on the understanding that the work is carried out to the satisfaction of the Gas Department and the cost does not exceed relatively the tenders of the Gas Department already accepted for similar work.

 

Bank Committee: March 19th 1923

 

1373 The following Report of the General Purposes Sub-Committee was submitted:

 

Etna System of Heating.

 

Your Sub-Committee report that the adoption of the Etna System of Heating was authorised by your Committee on the 25th September, 1922, and was subsequently installed at the Sparkbrook, Small Heath, Balsall Heath and Erdington Branches. The advantages claimed by the Etna Company for their System were briefly as follows:

 

(1) That an economy of 40% to 50% in gas consumption would be effected.

(2) That the heating would be more equally distributed over a room than was the case with Radiators.

(3) That the cost of installation was small.

(4) That no fumes would arise from the pipes as these would be carried outside.

 

The General Manager reported on the 20th November that the installations at the Branches had not given the results claimed, either in respect of warmth, economy or the elimination of the fumes. Experiments had been carried out by the Etna Company with a view to improving the System, involving however, the putting in of additional sections which gave an unsightly appearance to the Branches, and necessitated an increased consumption of gas. These alterations to the original installation involved the Company in additional expenditure, and accounts in respect thereof were received.

 

Under the circumstances your Sub-Committee decided not to install the Etna System at other Branches, but to adopt the Gas Circulatory Heating System, which has proved very satisfactory. Further experiments were carried out by the Etna Company at the four Branches where their System was installed, but without satisfactory results, condensation troubles and the unsightly appearance of the System.

 

Your Sub-Committee, after careful consideration, decided that the Gas Circulatory Heating System should be substituted for the Etna System at Sparkbrook, Small Heath, Balsall Heath and Erdington Branches. They directed that the Etna Company be informed that in consideration of their waiving all claims in respect of unsettled accounts for work carried out in installing their Patent Hot Air System at these Branches, the Sub-Committee were agreeable that they should be allowed to install there Gas Circulatory System, on the understanding that the work is carried out to the satisfaction of the Gas Department, and that the cost did not exceed relatively the Tenders of the Gas Department already accepted for similar work.

 

Your Sub-Committee now ask that their action in the matter be confirmed.

 

1374 RESOLVED:- That the action of the General Purposes Sub-Committee in arranging for the substitution of the Gas Circulatory Heating System for the Etna Patent Hot Air System at the Sparkbrook, Small Heath, Balsall Heath and Erdington Branches as indicated in the foregoing report be confirmed.

 

General Purposes Sub-Committee: October 8th 1923

 

The following report was submitted:

 

Heating System at Erdington Branch.

 

The Committee will remember that the Erdington Branch was one of those where the Etna Hot Air System of Heating had been installed and was not found satisfactory. The Committee agreed that the Etna people should remove the system from all the Branches where it had been installed, and should be like the Hot Air Circulatory System exactly like the Gas Department had done in other Branches, subject to the work being executed to the satisfaction of the Gas Department officials. Having regard to the fact that the premises at Erdington are not our own and that only a short tenancy is likely to be arranged, the Etna people have asked that if they remove the heating system as I have requested them to do so they should be allowed to put in the new system when the new premises are ready.

 

415     RESOLVED:- That the General Manager be instructed to arrange for the Etna Heating etc Company to remove the Etna system of heating at the Erdington Branch, on the understanding that they be paid half the cost of removal.

 

 

BACK TO THE TOP

Sparkbrook	£22. 10. 0.
"	£14. 12. 0.
Erdington	£12. 8. 6.
"	£4. 13. 11.
Small Heath	£25. 11. 0.
	£79. 15. 5.